These pillows are average. They are not as comfortable as I had hoped for and very heavy. So far they have held their shape. I'm simply not overly satisfied with the product. I bought a standard size alternative pillow, the floral 370 thread count, to try out the alternative down and found them to be very nice. No neck pain in the mornings, which was slightly shocking because I had not considered that benefit. The quality in this standard size brand was superior, they were just too small for someone used to the larger king size.