Ufortunately I had to return these pillows. They were not firm enough for me. I am a side slipper and need a very firm pillow. I have a down pillow now that I have had for years that I am trying to replace. I am not finding any firm enough. Maybe they just don't make them firm as they did. These were very nice pillows but not firm enough for me. My search goes on. Overstock return policy was great and worked perfectly. They have very helpful customer service people who guide you through the pocedure.